ADRIAN FLORIDO, HOST:
President Trump has a broad interpretation of executive authority. In just the last week, his administration has ramped up military strikes on what the president says are drug boats. And it's paid some federal workers by shifting money around without congressional authorization, perhaps the legislature's most fundamental duty. It's all raising questions, even among some Republicans, about Congress' role under Trump. Joining us now is NPR congressional correspondent Claudia Grisales. Hi, Claudia.
CLAUDIA GRISALES, BYLINE: Hi, Adrian.
FLORIDO: I want to start, Claudia, with just a basic question, which is, what is the relationship between the White House and Congress supposed to be like?
GRISALES: Right. With coequal branches of government, we should see Congress weigh in on these decisions, such as when to use military force, or at least oversight. Lawmakers should have full control over how the government spends money, as outlined in the Constitution. Instead, we're seeing Trump unilaterally lead strikes on these alleged drug boats in the Caribbean and issue paychecks to some federal workers when a shutdown means no payment should go out. I talked to professor Stephen Vladeck of Georgetown University about how he would characterize this moment for Congress.
STEPHEN VLADECK: I think we've seen a radical collapse of congressional power.
GRISALES: And we're also seeing Democrats speak out. They've been raising concerns about these moves on a daily basis.
FLORIDO: But what about Republican leaders, Claudia? Are they concerned?
GRISALES: No, many defend the president. I talked to Senate Majority Leader John Thune about this, specifically on appropriations. Here's how he responded.
JOHN THUNE: I mean, we have the power of the purse, obviously. Everybody's waiting for the government to be opened up. Congress has to do that.
GRISALES: But he says Trump is helping alleviate some of the pain of a shutdown for federal workers.
THUNE: There are things they can do. They're moving money around. They're doing things that any administration has done in the past to try and keep people, as many people as possible, getting paid.
GRISALES: So he's trying to say Congress still retains its power of the purse, but they're OK letting Trump do this.
FLORIDO: Right. You know, appropriations in particular, Claudia, have, you know, hardly been working smoothly for a long time. So how is this moment different?
GRISALES: Well, we haven't seen a president take over this level of power over appropriations before, especially when we consider decisions led by Trump and the head of Office of Management and Budget, Russell Vought. That's made more apparent during this shutdown, the extent they're willing to go to handle spending. We started the year with the dismantling of several federal agencies, and now we're seeing Vought direct funds during a shutdown, decisions normally handled by Congress. I talked to another Georgetown law professor, Josh Chafetz, about OMB's moves here.
JOSH CHAFETZ: Essentially, what the OMB is saying is we can spend money that hasn't been authorized by Congress. And we don't have to spend money that has been appropriated by Congress. Once you put those two together, there's nothing left of the congressional role.
GRISALES: And we know some Republicans are speaking out about this, that Congress should retain the power of the purse. And that includes Kentucky Senator Rand Paul and Maine Senator Susan Collins.
FLORIDO: OK, so the administration is taking over some major parts of spending authority. But what about these boat strikes in the Caribbean? How do they fit into this broader conversation about executive authority?
GRISALES: Well, a small number of Republicans are concerned these strikes violate domestic and international laws. Congress has the power to declare war. Senator Paul, who I just mentioned, is one of those people. He says Trump has set a new precedent of shoot first, ask questions later.
RAND PAUL: I think the idea of indiscriminately killing people without knowing their names, without seeing any evidence, without making a formal accusation or without collecting evidence - it's kind of ironic that we think these people are so dangerous, we're going to kill them without any information.
GRISALES: And today, a U.S. official who was not authorized to speak publicly told NPR the U.S. struck another alleged drug vessel last night, but this time in the Pacific.
FLORIDO: So Republican leaders are generally OK with Trump taking these actions. Briefly, Claudia, are there any forces on the horizon that could curtail Trump's power?
GRISALES: Well, we've seen some challenges to his power in federal courts. That's what experts point out. They also say voters could have the last word when they vote in the midterm elections next year.
FLORIDO: That's NPR's congressional correspondent Claudia Grisales. Claudia, thanks.
GRISALES: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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