JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
The government shutdown is taking a growing toll on the nation's air traffic controllers who are working without pay. Staffing shortages at air traffic control facilities led to major delays across the country over the weekend, with more problems today. And disruptions could continue as the 35-day-long shutdown continues. NPR's Joel Rose is here with more. Hi.
JOEL ROSE, BYLINE: Hi, Juana.
SUMMERS: So Joel, I know you've been talking to a number of air traffic controllers. What have you heard?
ROSE: Yeah. I spoke to four working air traffic controllers this week. All of them asked us not to use their names because they're afraid of retaliation from the Federal Aviation Administration. They described the situation as terrible, frustrating and demoralizing. They say morale among air traffic controllers was already low because of staffing shortages across the system and mandatory overtime. They say morale is even lower now because controllers are not being paid at all. One controller told me, this is all anybody is talking about at work.
These controllers say they were not surprised that there were major staffing shortages over the weekend at dozens of FAA facilities, particularly on Friday night, which was Halloween. That led to some of the worst delays that we have seen so far during the shutdown. Several controllers said they could understand completely why someone might call in sick and spend the night with their family.
SUMMERS: OK. So the shutdown - it's now at 35 days, tied for the longest shutdown ever. I mean, how are these controllers getting by when they're not getting paid?
ROSE: They did get some money in their first paycheck of the shutdown for hours that they'd worked before it started. But their last paycheck was zero, and it appears likely that the next one is going to be zero as well. Some told me they have been able to get loans from their credit unions to cover them for a few paychecks, but that is not a long-term fix. I talked to one controller at a traffic control facility at a major airport who said he has not taken on a second job yet but he does have a colleague who is already moonlighting in private security.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: I work with people that are working a second job at night and are just calling in sick in the morning when they can't go to the job that doesn't pay them because they're too tired. You know, I'm going to join that guy (laughter) here next week if things don't pan out.
ROSE: Because he needs to pay his mortgage. You know, the longer this goes on, the more controllers are going to face that same kind of choice.
SUMMERS: Joel, the big question on a lot of our minds - I mean, it's on my mind too - is it safe to fly right now with all of these staffing problems?
ROSE: Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy says yes, it is safe. He says the FAA will slow the system down, reroute and limit the number of planes in the air. And Duffy said today that they may have to do a lot of that if the shutdown still is not resolved next week and controllers do miss another paycheck.
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SEAN DUFFY: You will see mass chaos. You will see mass flight delays. You'll see mass cancellations, and you may see us close certain parts of the airspace because we just cannot manage it 'cause we don't have the air traffic controllers.
ROSE: Controllers told me the FAA is better at managing staffing shortages than it used to be. One controller said that far more of their colleagues have called out sick during this shutdown than during the previous one. And while there have been some disruptions to air travel, the system overall has been operating pretty close to normal. But controllers also said there is more risk in the system when you have controllers working multiple positions to cover for absent colleagues or because they're just more fatigued or more distracted because of their financial situation. And controllers say the system is less safe overall than it was a month ago.
SUMMERS: I just want to look ahead here for a second. Thanksgiving is just around the corner - lots of people traveling to go spend time with families. What happens if the shutdown is still going on then?
ROSE: That's a big question. One controller I talked to noted that it was about 35 days into the last shutdown in 2018 and 2019 when we saw major disruptions and that we might be close to that kind of a turning point now. Legally, air traffic controllers are not allowed to coordinate any type of job action, but the controllers I spoke to know that one of the busiest travel weeks of the year is around the corner. And one controller put it this way - I think you're going to see probably the worst day of travel in the history of flight.
SUMMERS: NPR transportation correspondent Joel Rose. Thank you.
ROSE: You're welcome.
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