Old Fort Soap Company, a local cottage industry founded by Hagan Amburgey and Gary Birch, is celebrating its 20th anniversary from its retail location in the YLNI Farmer’s Market.
Named Indiana's number one farmers market by the American Farmland Trust for the past three years, this popular venue showcases an array of weekly vendors who personally make or grow the products they sell. Every vendor is local, coming from Allen or surrounding counties.
What all began as a personal quest for a gentle and eco-friendly product, according to Amburgey and Birch, soon turned from passion to profession, once they dove into the process of making it themselves.
Once friends and family heard about and sampled their recipes, they demanded more, and Old Fort Soap Company was born.
Here, WBOI’s Julia Meek discusses the journey with the pair, and what their commitment to creating "Natural Soap for your Natural Skin" entails.
Find out more and connect with the Hagan & Gary at the Old Fort Soap Company website.
Here is the transcript of our conversation:
Julia Meek: Hagan Amburgey, Gary Birch, welcome.
Hagan Amburgey: Thank you.
Gary Birch: Thanks for inviting us.
Julia Meek: So, it's two decades now that you have been keeping the Fort in some really fine suds. Congratulations. And let's begin with why and how did the art of soap making call your names?
Hagan Amburgey: Skin issues ourselves. That's the main reason; dry skin, itchy skin from the store-bought stuff. We needed something and discovered how to make soap.
Julia Meek: So, survival?
Hagan Amburgey: Yeah, it was survival of the fittest, I guess. And a lot of research, a lot of time, and we discovered the product worked, helped heal our skin and made us feel better.
Julia Meek: What a really great story. A bit of a surprise that it was that direct. Did you think when you were going into things, you just wanted to stop itching, feel good about it yourself?
Hagan Amburgey: That was the reason. Then after that, we discovered, after friends told us that the farmers market was gonna reopen, well maybe we can sell this at the farmers market. And with $250, that's what we did.
Gary Birch: Where we started.
Hagan Amburgey: Where we started.
Julia Meek: That does sound like a, well, a cottage industry, then, to be literal.
Gary Birch: It is a cottage industry. The natural soaps are a cottage industry. We did start with $250 and a goal to help as many peoples' skin issues as we could. And 20 years later, we're still accomplishing that goal.
Julia Meek: And so, from passion to profession, besides the $250 and the itchy skin that you were looking to eradicate in your own lives, what else did it take to make this all go?
Gary Birch: Yeah, we did do a lot of library visits, studying as much as we could on individual ingredients to make sure we're giving the customers the highest quality and the products that would best alleviate the problems that they were having.
Julia Meek: Now two decades ago, just where did you go to find it?
Hagan Amburgey: We did go online. You know, Amazon was around, so we ordered books on Amazon. The first thing we did was go to the library. We checked out books from the library, read through those, practiced with recipes, then we started learning to make our own recipes. And then it all went from there.
Gary Birch: Yeah, it went from us making some for us, and then gifts to family and family saying, Make me some more of that. (chuckles) And on and on. And then the story of the market relaunching started our career.
Julia Meek: It's not in everybody's wheelhouse, if you will, or tool kit to be able to even figure out how to make soap, let alone actually make it. And meanwhile, you two did, you got enough impetus then, right there, and then you also operate without a storefront so your, you call it soap studio, over in the Memorial Park neighborhood. How does that work for you two?
Hagan Amburgey: It could be bigger (chuckles) at times, especially during the holidays, but it works out well. I mean, we're working from home.
Gary Birch: It tends to be a 24/7 job for us, because we are working out of our own home, but the convenience of being right there with all the products and ingredients, when an idea does come, we're, we're right there to throw it together and see how it works.
Julia Meek: It seems to suit you, like you say. What does peak time look like, then, at your house? Is it...
Hagan Amburgey: It could be a mess. (chuckles) It honestly can be. A lot of disorganization, a lot of...it's like any other business. When business gets really, really busy, it's not pretty. I mean, you're not going to find all nice and tidy and organized, I guess is the word that I want to say. It's--that's the way it is.
Gary Birch: It's more chaotic than lack of organization,
Hagan Amburgey: Yeah, chaotic organization.
Julia Meek: What is the division of labor like at Old Fort Soap?
Hagan Amburgey: I have my responsibilities. He has his responsibilities, and we know what needs to get done, and they get done.
Julia Meek: Do you overlap in who likes to do what?
Gary Birch: Sometimes, sometimes.
Hagan Amburgey: I guess, we don't argue about it or anything. Sometimes we get tired. I will say that.
Gary Birch: We both have our own duties, so to speak, but we both know that if one is heavy on one need, we both kick in and both can do the same duties.
Julia Meek: So, if you want to make a batch of soap, very, very simply put, how many steps?
Hagan Amburgey: You mix the sodium hydroxide with the water, you let it cool down to a certain degree, and then you melt the oils and butters. Let them cool down to a certain degree, you combine them, blend them, and then cook them until they turn to soap. Easy peasy.
Julia Meek: It does sound easier than I'm sure it really, really is. And as you have given us some visuals, it must look pretty interesting.
Hagan Amburgey: Of course. I forgot that you also add the fragrance and the colors. But you know, you kind of get the gist of it.
Julia Meek: Yes, indeed, very good. And your recipe of choice, if I'm using the right terminology, is lye soap that you're after?
Hagan Amburgey: Well, all soap is lye soap. You can't have soap without lye.
Gary Birch: All of our products are a lye-based soap, the old-fashioned natural lye-based soap. So yes, we do have a couple different formulas that we've created, but all of our soaps are lye soaps. There's no lye left after we cook our soap, though.
Hagan Amburgey: If you look at the store-bought products, they're gonna say beauty bar, moisturizing bar, they're not soap.
Julia Meek: So, that's a technical term?
Gary Birch: It is a technical term. Yeah.
Julia Meek: Very interesting.
Hagan Amburgey: Yeah, yeah.
Julia Meek: Now also, you advertise natural soap for your natural skin and gluten free, except oatmeal, vegan friendly too. Is there a prevailing trend in soap these days?
Gary Birch: There are some trends, and we do like to watch for the trends that are happening. People were really hip to bath bombs for a long time.
And there's been a trend now that people are going into more of the scrubbiness of soaps and getting the dirty hands really clean and soft. But people are going into the more of the moisturizing type of bars of soap now.
Julia Meek: And this is where your expertise has taught you. You've developed ways to make a bar or a concept of your soap to order, whatever is needed?
Gary Birch: Correct. Yeah, we can manipulate our formula if we need to, to customize to how we need.
Julia Meek: So exactly who's your target market?
Hagan Amburgey: Everyone. Everyone needs soap. Everyone needs to wash.
Gary Birch: It's really interesting that, over the 20 years, we've watched our little ones, their parents buy them our products. Now they're buying our products for their children. So it's heartwarming. Yeah, it's a multi age.
Julia Meek: That's generational. That's a great thing, because they know great product. Also, you were talking about skin issues and skin conditions. Just in general, we hear there's more pollution, there's less purity. There are a lot of obstacles in people's way these days. Can you determine what these are? And maybe...
Gary Birch: Yeah. There's a list out there called the Seven Bad Ingredients List. None of those ingredients are in our products. You know, sulfates, parabens, all those kinds of things.
Hagan Amburgey: Nor will they ever be.
Julia Meek: That's fantastic. And again, that's something that people really come to look for, and trust, trust you after all the years. And are in person versus online sales, two separate populations for you?
Hagan Amburgey: Yeah, there's a different feel, marketing-wise. We started out at the farmers market, so it's different to advertise, to get the business or to tell people about products, because they're there. They can smell them, you know, they can see them. It's a little harder when it comes to online.
Gary Birch: The online business isn't so bad, because a lot of our face-to-face customers are purchasing and mailing out to their family and friends, and that's where a lot of our online comes from.
Julia Meek: So, you have a lot of word-of-mouth crossover. That's the best case scenario.
Gary Birch: Yeah! You know when there's a birthday gift being mailed out to a family friend in California and we're in Indiana, so.
Julia Meek: Happy occasion for everyone, indeed. So just who and how serious is your competition?
Hagan Amburgey: We have lots and lots of competition. Now. We didn't have any competition when we first started. We were, as far as I know, the only so person when we first started. Now, everyone is out there.
Part to blame is Facebook, us putting things out on Facebook. Other people saw it. They can do it too. So, I don't know about Gary, but I find it easier just to not concentrate on that. People are going to do what they're going to do.
Let's focus on what we're going to do, what our customers are wanting, not what their customers are wanting, what our customers are wanting. We're not out to steal customers from somebody. We're out to keep our own customers.
Gary Birch: We like to say, competition really isn't our goal. It's our current customers that are our goal.
Julia Meek: Yes, and having as many as you can, validly. Now, for that matter, I understand what you just said there, Gary. Are you two ruthlessly competitive, would you say?
Gary Birch: We can be competitive in many ways. You know, our product is a specific type product, and there are lots of people out there who would like to duplicate. So the competition can be strong.
Hagan Amburgey: There's a lot of people out there that want to duplicate.
Julia Meek: Interesting, especially, and they know good product when they see it.
Hagan Amburgey: Unfortunately, and we saw it with other big companies that were out there too. We saw with, when it comes to the fragrances and all that, even our suppliers duplicate fragrances.
So, we can't be too critical when it comes to that, because I'm sure there's one or two fragrances that we have, that's from a big company as well.
Julia Meek: It's a game in a good way. It's a competition, because if there's more than one kind of soap, of course, there's going to be, but it sounds like there's a market for all of you.
Hagan Amburgey: Yeah, there's enough to go around.
Julia Meek: And the business of handmade soap is not without its new developments. You guys have figured that out over the last 20 years. (chuckles) Bath Bombs is one thing that you've mentioned, of every flavor included. What have you added to your line, those included, and how important do you think this is to your success?
Hagan Amburgey: Well, one item is shampoo and conditioner bars. And I think you asked a question earlier, where do we get the ideas? The main reason is our customers.
They come up and they ask us for these items, bath bombs, shampoo and conditioner bars were a couple of the items that they asked us about.
Gary Birch: We also have customers that are very concerned about plastics and waste and landfills, so we tend to try to develop products which we can minimize our packaging.
Where Hagan mentioned the shampoo conditioner bars, they have no packaging whatsoever. So, you're not, you're using a product that's 100% use, no garbage going into the landfills.
Julia Meek: And not packaging. It doesn't have to be, because you're very practical and things are sturdy and minimal. By the way, is there anything that you ever tried that you couldn't make work?
Gary Birch: Yeah, we've had some products that we've developed, and...
Hagan Amburgey: I would say they worked. But I think with all the other stuff that we have to do, we had to push some things aside. We've never made anything that just didn't turn out.
Gary Birch: I will say, we have products that we've retired because we've developed new products that came out, and the new scents have taken over, and we've retired several products.
Hagan Amburgey: I think one of them was toilet bombs. They were just really time consuming and really small, and it was just a lot of work. And there's other things that need to be done.
Julia Meek: And other products you can try that might be...
Hagan Amburgey: That we can spend more time on
Julia Meek: Yes, yes, that makes sense, because you have to be practical. Do you dare think of other, even more innovative ways to incorporate the natural product lines into the hustle and bustle of the 21st century, which is like so cutting edge of a lifestyle. Your stuff fits that, though.
Gary Birch: Yeah, it does fit. But I will say that everything outside of our bar soap, when we first developed our bar soap, every product outside of that came from our customers' requests.
I mean, it took time and hours of many trials and errors and development until we find that perfect product to put out to our customers.
Hagan Amburgey: I want to say this, I want to add to that too. When we first started, 20 years ago, no one was selling bar soaps. Stores wasn't selling bar soaps. Now look at all the option of bar soaps available, especially natural bar soap.
It's just amazing. I think more than just us was having skin issues, and hopefully we made a difference. I think we did. Yes, I really do think we did.
Julia Meek: That makes sense. And the back to basic, the natural way of doing things, which is the thought that you had all along, is catching, is catching on, isn't that right? (chuckles)
Hagan Amburgey: Ahh, I think it's already caught on, but we'll see how long it lasts, then, hopefully for a very, very long time.
Julia Meek: And also, the sustainable nature of your business. You alluded to that a bit ago. Gary, How does it feel to know full well that everything is biodegradable, friendly, making the small footprint that it should and otherwise doing its job and not doing anything bad?
Gary Birch: That's been part of our core effort. We do care about Mother Earth. We do care about what we have people put on their skin.
So, we do want to make sure that what we're gathering to put together is sustainable, is not deteriorating our forests, is not putting a product out there that's going to destroy Mother Earth.
So, we also want to be biodegradable. Once it's washed off your skin, where's it going? Don't want those chemicals floating...
Hagan Amburgey: Or all those package wastes, you know, the boxes, the bags, or whatever, all that package waste. When we first started, we didn't want to do that. It was an option back then too. But cost, when you buy a soap that's in a box, you're paying for that box.
Gary Birch: And our products are made here. They're not made in another country. And we're very ethical about the products we do need supplied, say, shea butter.
Shea butter is not really made here. So, we watch the ethical part of that, where they're farming it, and (how) the people that are farming it is treated as well.
Julia Meek: So happy to hear you say that, and such a good feeling.
Gary Birch: That is part of that research that we do. Yes, every product.
Julia Meek: Very, very good. Now through all this, you seem to have a great sense of humor, especially for your craft. It's apparent on your website, on your Facebook pages, you're having fun with all of this. What does that add to your product's impact, if not your street cred these two decades. (chuckles)
Gary Birch: We get a lot of customers that we just, we just love, so it is always a pleasure that we can always break loose and bring out our comical side.
I once said I'd probably make a better comedian than a soap maker (all laugh) but that's, that's where our comedian side comes in. And you know what, if you're not having fun what you're doing, you might want to reconsider.
Julia Meek: I might disagree with your subtle sense of crazy humor, too, there, but Hagan, that sounds like also, you guys just get along like that. Is that safe to say?
Hagan Amburgey: We get along about 99.9%, there's that other little percent that we don't but that's like with any relationship.
Julia Meek: And if it's as pure as your soap, which is pretty pure, that's really, really good for you, especially in those small quarters, either at your shop or at the farmers market. And having grown up, if you will, at the YLNI, the Young Leaders of Northeast Indiana Farmers Market, how was that for cutting your teeth?
Hagan Amburgey: You know, I don't think we ever thought about it. I think we just did it. Back when we first started, I think there was like six or eight different vendors there.
Gary Birch: The market was a work in progress, of course. The reboot when it first started, yes, there was four to six new vendors that came out and said, hey, we're we'll dig in and help get this started. We started about six months into it.
And yes, we have grown that market and grown a family of vendors, and we all know each other's needs, and you know, we all each work with each other to help build our own businesses, build their businesses as well.
Julia Meek: It's a legit organization.
Gary Birch: 100%!
Julia Meek: And really well respected here in the community, with certainly you two among the folks that have helped establish that reputation, also a kindly wonderful and very, very friendly and user-friendly place to be.
Gary Birch: It is.
Julia Meek: Which I would say, that you guys have helped to make.
Gary Birch: Twenty years! That's quite an accomplishment for our farmers market.
Julia Meek: Indeed! And meanwhile, how do you stay current in your industry, the serious side of the business, as well as the seasonally significant site of sales. How serious is it? How competitive is that part of things?
Gary Birch: It's very competitive. We need to be snoopy shoppers. We're out there looking at trends that are coming out. And there's a lot of seriousness to finding those products that are going to really hit the mark for our customers, and for many reasons, we've found that perfect home run.
Hagan Amburgey: Like I said, we get samples in from our suppliers, we smell them, we test them, and we go from there. When it comes to our products, if we see one that's doing well, we'll add more like that to the batch, like our scrubby soaps and so on and so forth.
That's how we built the business. That's--It's not like we knew everything when we first started. You know, nobody ever does. Even the most knowledgeable CEO out there doesn't know everything. You know, it's all a game of chance a lot of times, I think.
Julia Meek: Would you say that the curiosity you had then, especially when you were looking for ways to just stop itching, yourself and have the right kind of soap, is still there? In a different, more evolved form, but are you, are you equally curious?
Gary Birch: It's an educated curiosity now. Yeah, we, it's for sure, it's been a 20 year educational "educated curiosity" now.
Julia Meek: Very good, and we hope that you've got 20 more years of it.
Gary Birch: We do too.
Julia Meek: So, I am curious, if you could add anything in the world to your enterprise right now, sky's the limit, startup money is no object. Dream big. What would it be?
Gary Birch: Well, we've always liked the shopping centers where you can go and purchase all kinds of items, not just our soaps.
Hagan Amburgey: Like a mercantile.
Julia Meek: Okay! (chuckles)
Gary Birch: Yeah, if you think of it as in a sense, of a mercantile, bins of grains and bins of, you know, flowers. And it would be a step in the right direction, but it would have to be all natural products, and it would have to be all stuff that's all hand made.
Julia Meek: And great big?
Gary Birch: And great big!
Hagan Amburgey: And lots of help, because I'm already tired thinking about it. (all laugh)
Julia Meek: No two man show.
Hagan Amburgey: Uhh, no!
Julia Meek: Seriously, almost the exact opposite, except your product, which would be accompanied by many, many, many others all of the same ilk. How interesting?
Gary Birch: With the same interests.
Julia Meek: Well, we wish you luck on all of that. If anybody could figure out a way to do it, it's probably going to be you two.
And, looking back at the 20 years you are celebrating in this very business of fine handmade soaps, right here in the heartland, did you ever think we'd be sitting here some 20 years later discussing it? And the last question, since we are doing that very thing, what does this successful run mean to you?
Hagan Amburgey: Absolutely not, because when we decided to do the business, I was kicking and screaming into it. I really was. I was a wine specialist.
I loved my job. I loved what I was doing. So I was thinking, working in that two jobs again, again in my life?! I didn't look forward to it. But you know what, I am so very thankful and very glad we did do it.
And no, absolutely not. I did not think we would be here in front of a microphone talking to you. Absolutely not. Not for a minute. I'm glad we are, though!
Julia Meek: I am too. And what about you, Gary?
Gary Birch: Well, after developing our product and we decided to try the market as our first outreach of our product, midway through that first day at the market, and we were looking at our shelves, and they're almost empty, we thought we're onto something here.
There's a big need for this product. So, that's where our ingenious research and development kicked in from experience.
Julia Meek: Glad it did?
Gary Birch: We are glad it did. Twenty years later and 20 years in the future, we'll still be developing and creating. (chuckles)
Julia Meek: Hagan Amburgey and Gary Birch are founders and owners of Old Fort Soap Company. Thank you for sharing your story with us today and your wonderful product all of these years. Keep up the great work you do. Do carry the gift.
Hagan Amburgey: Thank you, goodbye.
Gary Birch: Thanks for having us. We appreciate it.
