SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
What's happening in Iran, and what will the Trump administration do next? The answers from the White House shift daily, if not hourly. Declarations of war and ceasefires are coming via President Trump's social media account. The administration is calling negative press coverage unpatriotic. A new project examines how the Trump White House has treated the media and how that shapes the information that is shared with the American public. Here to discuss all of this are NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik and senior political editor at correspondent Domenico Montanaro. Domenico, let me start with you. Tell us about the project.
DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: Yeah. This is part of a Georgetown class. It's their capstone course for seniors. And full disclosure, I was an adjunct in this class and helped shape the survey of White House correspondents and the framing of this study.
And a few things stood out here. The pool - you know, which is the reporter or reporters who travel with the president or report on the daily goings on, often get to ask questions - has, really been expanded to include a lot more partisan, right-leaning outlets, which can make for uneven quality, watered-down scrutiny, even. The partisan outlets are also often getting the first question at briefings. And transparency in this White House is way down. You know, things not just like medical reports and tax returns, but visitor logs are nonexistent, staff salaries aren't being released, and even transcripts of presidential remarks are pretty inconsistent.
DETROW: How do the correspondents who come to the White House every day say that these structural changes are affecting the quality of the information that they're giving to the public?
MONTANARO: Yeah. We got about 90 White House correspondents to participate. And, you know, it's not a statistical survey, but it's a pretty big focus group. And they say it's really hurt that - you know, especially because the White House is not providing accurate information, they say, and that they don't correct inaccuracies. On a personal level, a lot of them say that the job has become more emotionally exhausting, more difficult, more stressful. And we should say, this is not of Pentagon reporters, where a lot of the structural changes and attacks have been really acute.
DETROW: Yeah. And David Folkenflik, you have watched all this unfold in real time in your role covering the media. What would you say the overall impact is on news and information for the White House? Like, for example, coverage of the Iran war.
DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: Well, so this is an interesting case study, right? I mean, you're seeing Trump use the arms of the government to formalize his kind of political instinct to delegitimize the news media. So how do you do that? You dilute, you know, in the way that Domenico is describing, the number of reporters who may be asking accountability questions, adversarial questions, at times, about the war, tough question, by putting in a lot of people who are propping you up, you know, on podcasts or online. You offer less information, worse quality. It sounds a little bit like that joke of the Borscht Belt about the servings at a resort, right? It's - the food isn't good, and there's so little of it. That's kind of what you're getting here. And as a result, you're not seeing - at least in real time, on TV or streaming - the kinds of tough accountability questions being asked, even as they are being asked in different moments and different places.
DETROW: Domenico, what do you think the goal is from the Trump administration of all of this?
MONTANARO: Yeah. I mean, this is all about controlling the narrative. I mean, every administration tries to have - find, you know, new ways to bypass a media filter. President Obama went around legacy media often, didn't really do as many interviews as they - as press would have liked, did things like "Between Two Ferns With Zach Galifianakis." President Biden got criticized for not doing many interviews at all.
But Trump has taken his criticism and undermining of traditional media really to a whole new level. I mean, there's a certain irony, too, because he seems to want the approval of the press also. He'll, on the one hand, say the press is the enemy of the people and fake news, and on the other, he goes on to take a ton of personal calls from reporters, especially during the Iran war here, and as his approval ratings have tumbled.
DETROW: David, other than, you know, hurting the feelings and inconveniencing White House correspondents - and as a former one, I will say that happens, and they can get over it - like, how successful has the White House been at the broader tactics it's trying to achieve?
FOLKENFLIK: Well, right. If you're thinking about this from our standpoint - as listeners, viewers, readers and more - most important, perhaps, citizens and voters - there's still a heck of a lot of muscular accountability reporting - people fact-checking the president, people raising questions the administration then has to scramble to address. But look, it does give cover, as Domenico suggested, to the Pentagon, basically, giving the Heisman to the press corps almost in its entirety, saying you have to report only with an escort at all times within the five walls of the Pentagon.
And although I don't really think it's having an effect on reporters being willing to ask intemperate questions who are coming from that standpoint and that kind of news outlet, I think you're seeing the billionaire owners and the, you know, multimillionaire news executives blanch a little bit as they see the repercussions of offending the administration. So the reporting is still there. It makes it harder, and it makes the quality of information they're getting in rebuttal from the administration much weaker.
DETROW: Yeah. Domenico, this comes a few days before the White House Correspondents' Dinner this weekend. For the first time, President Trump will be there. Is it possible in this moment for the president and the press corps that covers him to be in the same room, having a civil dinner without any sort of drama?
MONTANARO: Well, as with a lot of things in Washington and around the world, frankly, it's going to really depend on this president. You know, past presidents have done these dinners as a way to recognize the importance of a free press and independent journalism, despite what's always a tug between the narrative that the White House wants out and tough questions and examination of words (ph) that the media is supposed to do for all presidents, regardless of party.
But Trump and many in his administration have not only shown little regard for those important ideals, they've actively undermined them and tried to intimidate through lawsuits, insults and cracking down on access. So we'll see. It'll be a unique moment, to say the least.
FOLKENFLIK: And, Scott, if I may jump in just for a sec. You know, if you think about that moment - you know, it's been this moment where people are supposed to put aside from the administration, from the Oval Office and on the side of the newsroom, the idea of an adversarial tough-minded press to affirm the role that each plays. Trump is not in the business of affirming the role that the press plays unless it is allowing to - is serving as a platform for what he wants to say at any given moment. He is definitely not in that business.
Yet you have the Ellison family hosting, Brendan Carr, Trump's chief broadcast regulator, as a guest at this dinner. You're having Pete Hegseth who, as Pentagon chief, has essentially shut the press out, as a guest of CBS at this dinner. The question in some journalistic circles is, should there be a civil dinner on Saturday night or not?
DETROW: Yeah.
FOLKENFLIK: You know, it's one of the discomforts of Washington.
DETROW: That is NPR's David Folkenflik and Domenico Montanaro. Thanks to both of you.
FOLKENFLIK: Thank you.
MONTANARO: You bet. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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