STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
A retired officer who's been watching the dismissals with concern is General Peter Chiarelli. He served for almost 40 years, including multiple tours in Iraq and as vice chief of staff of the Army. General Chiarelli, welcome.
PETER CHIARELLI: It's good to be with you.
INSKEEP: What patterns, if any, do you see in these firings and retirements and denials of promotion?
CHIARELLI: Well, there are many patterns, but the one that concerns me most is the injustice seems to fall the hardest on women in the service. We worked very, very hard to ensure that women were represented at the highest ranks of our service.
INSKEEP: We know, based on the numbers, that a lot of women have been targeted for firings. But why is it hitting them harder?
CHIARELLI: Well, you know, a woman competing for a star today has to build a record at least as strong as her male peers. With fewer of those opportunities available to her, she's under more scrutiny with less margin for a single mistake and often carrying burdens at home that her male counterparts have never had to answer for.
INSKEEP: What else is happening through these firings? What message is being sent to the military as a whole?
CHIARELLI: You have to agree and not speak truth to power, which I think is very, very important. We take an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. And I worry that this pattern will discourage folks from speaking up when they don't agree or they receive an unlawful order.
INSKEEP: Is this like any previous set of firings you can recall from your almost four decades in the service?
CHIARELLI: Not that I can recall. I cannot. I mean, there surely have been secretaries of Defenses who have fired officers. I look back on my experience, and I can remember three or four or five. But, you know, what's always been different with those firings is we have been told why they were fired. I don't know a single instance now that we have been told why those officers were fired.
INSKEEP: What is important about that?
CHIARELLI: Well, I think it's very important because it says that we're holding officers accountable. But...
INSKEEP: Oh, wait a minute. Wait, I want to understand what you're saying. Why is it important to give a reason for the firing? Is it because you want to show that the firing was for something that was done and not because, say, of their political orientation?
CHIARELLI: Right, or that they don't agree with policies that are being implemented.
INSKEEP: How would you describe the force that's being created, then, by the people who were left behind?
CHIARELLI: Well, I worry about that force. I really worry about that force. And, you know, like I said, the message to every officer still serving seems to me to be unmistakable. You know, your professional military advice is now a liability. Tell the secretary what he wants to hear or clean up your office. That seems to be the message.
INSKEEP: Did allowing women into combat, which is something that I believe happened on your watch, during your time in the military, make the military any less effective?
CHIARELLI: No, it didn't. The fact of the matter is, women were in combat the entire time we were in Iraq and Afghanistan. We had medics that we absolutely needed in Iraq and Afghanistan that were women who, you know, under old doctrine, would've been behind the forward edge of the battlefield. But there was no forward edge of the battlefield in Iraq and Afghanistan. And without those women out there treating soldiers who were wounded, we would've had serious issues.
INSKEEP: General, what are the risks, if any, of purging the force when there is a shooting war on?
CHIARELLI: When you let these people go, when you don't get them promoted, when they're forced out of the service, this isn't like going into a company and taking out folks and you go find others to fill those slots. There is no one to fill those slots. There is no one to fill those slots. If you promote from below, OK, you're promoting people with little experience. And that's what you lose here, is you lose folks that have been in the service for, you know, 30 years, 35 years, who have a tremendous amount of experience that is absolutely critical when fighting the wars that we're fighting today, so - and preparing for the wars of the future.
INSKEEP: General Peter Chiarelli served for almost 40 years in the U.S. Army. General, thanks so much.
CHIARELLI: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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